Owen Jones - 6 Reasons To Vote To Remain iIn The EU

Owen Jones - 6 Reasons To Vote To Remain iIn The EU

Political commentator and journalist Owen Jones gives you 6 reasons to vote to remain in the EU.

1. Workers rights, paid annual leave and sick pay. All protected by our membership of the EU. Would the Tories protect us if we leave? Can we trust Boris Johnson not to strip of us our rights.

2. European wide actions on banksters, wealthy elite tax avoiders and climate change. EU finance ministers have put some action into practise which wouldn't have happened if it was down to the Tories, many of who are involved as the Panama Papers recently showed us.

Watch the video for the rest of the points.

We need to vote Remain in the EU referendum - to build a just, democratic Europe. The EU is far from perfect. It needs to become more democratic, more transparent and to start looking out for the people it represents ahead of corporate interests.

By uniting with people across Europe, we have a chance of achieving it.


What do you think of Owens points?

Are we better in together, as a left wing Eurosceptic Owen believes we can change the EU from the inside out. Is that a real possibility?

Lord Owen spells out his reasons for leaving the EU

Lord Owen spells out his reasons for leaving the EU

This interview is with Lord Owen and he goes over some of the points raised so far in the EU debate pointing out where he thinks the lies and propaganda has gone too far


Has Lord Owen got a point?

At least this dispels any myths about little Englanders being the only people interested in leaving the EU. People from the left, middle and right of politics all have opinions either way.

Personally I am split both ways and here is my own pros and con list.

Reasons To Stay

1. Civil, Workers and Human Rights. 

The Tory government has constantly threatened to rip up Human Rights Act, a piece of legislation they helped create after WWII. I have no faith that a Tory written Bill of Rights would give us anything worth mentioning. It would be the Lib Dem's Freedom Bill all over again. Due to the current Tory government I cannot be sure that if we left the EU they wouldn't rip up all the benefits the EU has brought us over the years such as limits on working hours, minimum number of paid holidays, health and safety laws and the Human Rights act. So many other civil liberty related laws have been repealed or changed by Blair and the Tories before and after that we have lost so much when it comes to freedoms and civil rights that the EU is at least a backstop to prevent total police state UK due to the threat of terrorism.

2. Being able to travel and live around Europe Visa free. 

I personally reckon things have changed a lot since I moved to Spain to live some time back. Being able to go to the local hospital or doctors and not have to pay due to the EU form I had was great. Even if I couldn't speak much Spanish my letter from the doctor about medications I was on was handy to point at during a consultation.

I have been stitched up in Ibiza and Spain for free and although this was years ago I did hear on BBC Question Time the other night from an ex UK soldier who had planned on retiring in Spain but was forced back due to Spanish doctors telling him they couldn't afford to look after him (due to him being from the UK). How true this is I have no idea but we allow free use of the NHS to anyone who turns up at A&E whether they are from the EU or Africa. Being able to travel when you are younger is an attractive prospect and if anything made it harder to do that I guess a lot of people would be pretty annoyed. Of course there is no need for VISA's, we never used to have one to go to the USA but that doesn't mean any re-negotiations with the EU after BREXIT would involve VISA's to visit EU countries.

3. The TTIP. 

I know the Tories have probably bent over backwards to allow US global corporations access to the NHS and other state industries so they can milk them for profit. Therefore I have no faith that leaving the EU would stop us becoming a member of this new threatening trade agreement that will allow companies to sue our government if we introduce laws that cost them money. The French are threatening to veto TTIP at EU level and if we remain in the EU then they could be our only saviour against TTIP.

Do you honestly think the Tories won't try to sign us up for TTIP if we leave the EU?

Reasons To Leave

1. Basic democracy. 

Not being able to create our own laws and elect and fire the people who do is a basic tenet of a free society. We have a proud history of giving the world rule of law from the Magna Carta to the UK philosophers who helped inspire the US revolution, from Thomas Paine, The rights of man and the social contract between citizen and state. 

We also drew up the Convention of Human Rights after WWII to show the newly free countries of Eastern Europe how a civilised country acted. The most democratic part of the EU, the EU parliament that we all get a chance to elect UKIP MEP's to every so often is also the weakest part of the whole decision making process. The EU commission full of failed politicians like Neil Kinnock make (or convert policy documents) into law and the Council of Ministers is just one big horse trade as compromises are made over any new legislation. It is our right to govern ourselves and for anyone to say we can reform the EU to make it more democratic only from staying inside it, I say, well how come we haven't managed to do this in the time we have been members so far?

2. Migration. 

Not being able to choose who to allow in to our country and being prevented from allowing commonwealth countries access because EU migrants have filled up all the places. I live somewhere where migration has totally changed the face of the town. I do not underestimate that migration helps keep our services like the NHS going but many of the nurses and doctors are from the Far East or Africa not the EU. Yes it's nice being able to get your car washed and valeted at the local garage by 10 Romanians for a tenner but how many cars do they wash a day for the pittance they are paid. I know from seeing it that 4+ Polish men have shared a single room in a shared house as it was all they could afford. Is it fair to allow the exploitation of their willingness to work for low wages, and the pressure it puts on other peoples wages to be kept low?

3. Federalism. 

The EU project has traces going all the way back to German banks in the 30's wanting a free market to allow them to easily invest in other countries industries. The German and French politicians have never been shy of admitting the EU is a project moving constantly towards a closer more integrated federal Europe. As we are not in the Euro and it seems that the only way that currency will work is with a proper fiscal and federal union we are not going to have much say considering we are outside this Euro club. Why not allow them to get on with closer integration if they so wish and allow us to remain a free nation state. Anyone who denies the underlying reasons for the EU, to prevent more war, and create a single European nation, an idea that goes back to the times of Rome and Napoleon is deluded.

Reasons To Ignore

Any talk of causing World War III, or massive unemployment or recession due to us leaving the EU should be ignored. 

We are the 5th biggest economy on the planet and whilst some may claim the EU may have had something to do with this they forget that before the massive debts we incurred fighting two World Wars we were the biggest economic power on earth. 

We have traded internationally for hundreds of years, we have always been a nation of shopkeepers, creators, inventors and entrepreneurs. For anyone to say we couldn't create trade deals with countries when the EU has attempted and failed to do deals with many other countries or taken 5+ years to do something that a few months should be enough for is just folly.

There may have been no war in Europe (apart from Bosnia and Serbia) since 1945, but then NATO has had more to do with our protection than any EU policy. Having 28 differing opinions is not going to be good for any kind of quick decisive action when it comes to dealing with emergencies as the war in Bosnia showed.

Therefore talk from both sides about anything that cannot possibly be known at this point in time should be ignored. The vote should be done on points of principle not maybes and hypotheticals.

What are the key points you are thinking about when it comes to voting time?

Will you vote to stay in the EU or leave it?

Will you vote to stay in the EU or leave it?

Do you want to stay in the European Union or leave it?

By Dark Politricks

I hope you have taken the poll at the top of the page, if not do so and you can always come back and change your mind later on.

As the debate rages around the UK on whether we should leave or stay in the EU. The question is are people really thinking for themselves or are they just believing all the crap that the daily rags tell them to?

We have owners of multiple papers who live offshore most of the year just to get out of paying their fair share of UK tax, telling us tax payers what to do. Is this really fair? It's just the rich elite who are always going to go from strength to strength as long as no-one stands up to them enforcing their will on the people as they always do.

Will people who vote actually make a real decision or will they be swayed like the US electorate always is to vote for the person with the biggest smile, angriest most bullish comments and plans to "restore America to greatness" as if it had suddenly become a third world country without the biggest economy and military in the world?

So the BREXIT referendum all rests on whether people believe the "deal" Cameron brought back was worth the paper it was written on or not.

To me Cameron's "Deal", is just a tinkering around the edges that prevents migrants from claiming benefits for years, and allows Britain to cap the number of people entering the country. It really doesn't make much of a difference at all.

We will still will be bound by the European Court of Human Rights, pay our monthly millions to be part of the EU, and whilst the Euro zone members make important financial decisions we will now be left out of them and probably still be asked to pay towards any bailouts such as those for Greece and Ireland etc.

I never got to vote to join the EC in the 70's.

That was the Economic Community, a joining together of countries for free trade without tariffs between members and a supposed opening up of the many countries nationalised utilities and businesses.

It was not a vote on whether we should join a European Super State, with its own Defence Force, a 3 tier decision-making system where the most democratic body, the European Parliament, has the least power.

People complain about the number of EU migrants that enter Southern Europe and are then just waved through multiple  counties until they reach Germany or Calais hoping to get to England. However we must remember that about 1.8m Britons live in Europe, with Spain boasting an expat population of just over 1m UK citizens.

Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK.

The question is, if free movement is good for us, what will happen when it is shut down. We may be able to control the number of migrants from the EU entering the country but what will happen to the retired wrinkled leather tanned grannies of the Costa Del Sol?


An ex Pat, enjoying the Sun and beach

Will these ex pats all have to go through some sort of immigration test as if they were trying to get green cards in the US?

I cannot even imagine many Brits passing any part of a test that expected them to know the hosts language and culture.

It could be that we manage to make arrangements that doesn't affect Brits with jobs OR money from going out to live in the EU however I am guessing a lot of EU members are really pissed off with us at the moment for getting a "special membership deal".

Whilst Germany and France wanted to keep us in the EU for the risk that it might fall apart, I can well imagine many newer members are thinking, why does the UK always try to get it's own way?

From my perspective it would have been good if Cameron had reached a consensus with other members that would have reformed the EU properly.

You know basic things like make it truly democratic, removed any moves to keep pushing for a super state, restored it back to a trading block that was good for business without all the imported laws and of course stopped all the massive fraud which has prevented a real audit for many years now.

There are lots of things wrong with the EU and the constant push towards a superstate is one of them. One of the original ideas was to try and make a block of states that was an equal balance to the power of the US but instead we have just turned into the USA's cross pond bitch.

So I believe Cameron's almost Chamberlain like "Peace in our time", excitement at having got his deal, is going to bite him in the butt just as Chamberlain found out when the NAZI's ignored his magic bit of paper and rolled across Europe.

This is small fry being pumped with steroids to make it seem like a massive change in our relationship with the EU. In reality it is some small changes around the edges.

If ever someone had made a worthless deal and wanted to sell it to the public as if it was a magic exemption from all the EU's meddling in our lives, like the EU Human Rights Law that protects us from this Police State country over reaching in its step, then this is it.

When I was younger I liked being able to hop on a plane and just go to Spain to live. I had no job but that didn't matter, free movement of people and workers meant we could all go where we wanted when we wanted without border checks, citizenship tests and green cards.

For those who have never lived abroad and have only gone to Ibiza on your holiday or maybe a trip to Paris on Valentines day then you won't really think about the difference between a holiday and actually being able to pick up your bags and literally run off to any part of Europe with no questions asked.

However whilst Spain has always been the old stereotyped destination for our UK retirees it seems over recent year the US, Australia and the rest of the world have overtaken Europe for the primary destination for those with one foot in the grave.

The top 10 destinations for Britons to retire to are now:

• Channel Islands: 73,030
• Germany: 96,938
• France: 172,806
• Ireland: 253,605
• South Africa: 305,660
• New Zealand: 313,850
• Spain: 381,025
• Canada: 674,371
• United States of America: 758,919
• Australia: 1,277,474

So maybe the modern "cultured" Brit is changing their retirement plans and thinking a bit more further than the Costa Del Crime nowadays.

Spain has always been our number one destination for holidays and retirees. A place where you can enjoy the 40° heat and drink British beer in pubs frequented by famous English gangsters on the run.

So many famous British gangsters have been out to the Costa Del Sol no wonder we call it the Costa Del Crime.

However it seems we are looking wider than Med for our retirement plans - that's if we get any pension money. I doubt I will ever see any from the thousands I have put into the system over my working career. It seems the Tories want us to work until our 80's and the age is constantly being pushed upwards.

There have been rumblings from Tory think tanks for years now from people already on hundreds of thousands of pounds a month pensions who believe we should do voluntary work in our retirement to collect our hard earned pension.

Leaving the EU won't stop any evil Tory plans from coming to fruition and if we want a REAL CHANGE in our democracy and the way we act in the world we should be thinking about NATO. 

What would we do if Turkey start a war with Russia over Syria, we would be forced to fight on their side whether they started the war by deception or not. I am more worried about World War III happening due to duplicitous NATO allies at the moment than the amount of money we pay in and get back in rebates from the EU.

We should also be thinking about how the Tories have tripled our national debt in the years they were supposedly "fixing the roof whilst the sun was shining", and supposedly cutting the ever so important deficit. The deficit may have dropped but the total amount of debt has increased hugely due to the Tories thinking that the poorer we all are, the more money we will spend.

They have failed us. In Europe, on the world stage and most importantly at home.

Austerity hasn't worked at all and the national debt has ballooned because of the Tories core voters (the grey brigade), will vote against anyone who dares to cut their pensions.

These take up a vast proportion of the social security budget and will undoubtedly be ignored whist the disabled and poor are forced to suffer through the bedroom tax, universal credit, and the severe lack of social housing we have in this country.

Europe has no control over these areas of our lives and if we want to sort out our country we really need to get rid of the failed Tories and try their method of printing money, not at 0% interest rates so the Banksters can lend it to us through companies like WONGA at 5,853% APR, but to invest in infrastructure, building new homes and putting people through education. If we can do it for the banks why can't we do it for the people?

Remember we were in a much worse off state in the years after WWII. We only just finished off paying our debt to the US a few years ago under Gordon Brown.

Despite that we still created the NHS, cleared the slums of London and built thousands of new houses and multiple new towns for the people moved out of London. Plus we ushered in an age of economic prosperity that latest decades.

It is only short-sighted Tory thinking that keeps us in the current trap we are in. One where bankers must be bailed out even though they should be in jail, and the poor are paying off the national debt, despite having no money.

If only we would just wipe any national debt on citizens like Iceland did to many mortgage holders that were linked to inflation. It sounds crazy but would put money in the pockets of those most likely to spend it, plus create a huge demand for goods and a rise in GDP.

Having a "National Bank" that can print money as long as it's for investment in houses and jobs could give us full employment, cheaper rent and accommodation costs and more money in the pocket to spend to increase GDP.

At the moment our whole economy, just like it was during Labours time in office, is built on the house of cards made from debt. People remortgaging houses or taking out loans to spend on goods. An unsustainable recovery. Screw the bankers who say it cannot be done. We did it for you, why can't we do it to actually help rebuild our country?

So the question is, are people going to think with their heads or their hearts about this exit from the EU.

A lot has changed with the European project to stop a further European war after WWII, with France and Germany the two main actors in this union coming together to ensure that the rest of Europe sticks together and shows "solidarity".

From stopping a war to free trade agreements and a central bank. Then a EU flag, courts and parliament. Then laws enforced on us which we don't want. All whilst we pay billions to be part of a club that's money could be better spent on hospitals and schools. That is one argument for leaving.

The problem is that war fades in people's minds, especially those who never fought in WWII or who had family who did.

"What does the EU have to do with WWII" many people will ask. 

Now that the EU project is more about creating a super state, it spies on us and hands over all bank transactions to the US as well as traces of our Internet history and anything else the NSA overlords demand. However even if we leave the EU I guess due to our "special relationship", with the US, we would still carry on letting our GCHQ be the NSA's bitch, so nothing would change on the police state front.

Also whilst we may collaborate as a big trading block to face China, the BRICS and North American trading blocks, can the BREXIT crew really convince us that on an economic scale we would really be better outside this trading block.

Selling tea to India, ornaments to Russia and other small manufactured products across the world is the BREXIT plan. We don't build big things anymore. Our ship building industry is almost gone and we have offshored so many jobs that actually make things, you know jobs good for all those skilled manual workers we are trying to find jobs for, that we are just a service economy. Selling ideas, concepts and of course bank trickery.

If we leave the EU will we survive without the cheap gas and electricity we import from the EU, or will we get extra tariffs put on them putting us even further into debt. The French/Chinese nuclear power stations that were supposed to be on their way have only just been signed off.

It will take another 20 years at least until we see these new power stations so we will be relying on our dwindling North Sea Oil stocks and imports seeing that we never really bothered investing in green energy.

This is despite being an island surrounded by multiple ways of making energy from natural sources such as the sea, wind and sun. We have loads of places to put under sea turbines that use wave power and windmills off shore to take in their blustery winds. We really never tried as we suffered from a  "not in my back garden" mentality, whenever a wind farm was proposed to be build anyway near a house.

So will people even consider the financial terms of leaving or will they think what the Sun, Daily Mail and other trash papers tell them to think?

The EU is a debt ridden collection of states that turned the thumb screws on Greece, Italy and Spain all so that they could enforce austerity, increase taxes and pay back Goldman Sachs and that other evil trio, the European Bank, IMF and World Bank.

Do we want to live in a place that see's solidarity between nations as one that involves throwing the poor to the dogs so that their rich Banksters who caused the mess can be fully compensated. Plus solidarity is not where Germany gets to bend the rules but smaller states can't lest they risk German austerity plans as the cost of remaining in the Euro.

This financial crisis that has still not been solved since 2008 is just waiting for another explosion. When it comes it will make 2008 look like a picnic.

Will the UK, the hub of banksters from the terrorist supporting, Mexican drug dealing, al-Qaeda funding HSBC to the corrupt Barclay's brothers, really be better inside or out when the next economic explosion occurs.

As the City of London is basically it's own country within a country, where the leaders of the companies and banks get to sit on their special council and can "command" the Chancellor to appear before them, they will probably see no difference in their money making schemes whether we leave or stay.

To me it all depends on who is in charge.

The Tories seem to want to put the strain of any recovery on the backs of the working class whilst rewarding their rich friends.

Their recent budget removed £30 from the disabled people of our country that gave them support to get dressed and move about and instead they have given the richest more tax breaks. It is clear where their priorities lie. Voting Tory is like voting for a gang rape on yourself. Why people do it I have no idea.

On the other hand Labour, SNP, the Greens and Lib Dems feel that a more even policy that involves banksters going to jail and splitting up the banks between Casinos and Savings is called for.

On top of that more measures that don't punish the poor but instead help them climb up the ladder whilst the rich who have become more wealthy in the last 5+ years are made to contribute their fair share.

Whether they will actually stick to their words is a totally different matter. We just have to look at the Lib Dems when they got their taste of power to see how power corrupts and good promises become faded memories.

So what will make you vote yes or no when the time comes?

EU Democracy or the lack of it?

The prospect of war?

Finance and austerity?

Migration?

Not being held to account to the European Convention of Human Rights (an act the Tories wrote after WWII to show how civilised we are)

Or something else?

Let me know.

View the original article at www.darkolitricks.com.

By Dark Politricks